I suspect it really depends on what units your using. imperial fists for example really are awesome if your personal preferance tatically leans towards heavy use of non-assault marines utilizing devestators for your anti-vehicle. Iron Hands are simply the best choice if you're a mech heavy army. Ultramarines IMHO are gonna be one of the hardest to master. pretty much requirely you to have a highly flexable force with a mix of units. but I could see a true master of it being impressive
I wonder why Raven Guard got so many votes, their chapter tactic is the worst and useless by far. Only veterans and tacticals squad with their rhinos benefit from it. And only in deployment and perhaps first round of combat. All the other chapters got tactics that can be used throughout the whole game, that really have an impact on your playstyle or shooting.
Scout and stealth from the chapter tactics benefits "models in the detachment", meaning it applies to basically everything that isn't bulky or very bulky, as per the exceptions, so it has broader applications than just sternguard and tacs in rhinos. Also, using your jump pack in movement and assault allows for all sorts of great movement and placement shenanigans, especially with the much improved (IMHO, namely because of the points decrease) vanguard vets. If you don't think it's good, you're just not being creative enough.
I've never said that it's not good, I've just said that the other tactics are better :) And using the jump pack in move and assault is .. nice. But not great, since sm jump pack units are not very good. You got perhaps one squad, which benefits from it. While the other chapters got tactics which are used by more units.
Well, who else does benefit from the scout and stealth then ? Tacs, vets and devs. Scout is ok, but the Raven Guard chapter as a whole is not very good when compared to the others imo.
Well, vehicles also benefit since it vehicles are also models i nthe detachment, and they don't suffer from the restriction of being bulky or very bulky according to the rules, so you get your rhinos, razorbacks, landspeeders ... predators, land raiders. It gives great potential for pre game redeployment.
Also, the assault jump is a unique way of using asm. Think of them more like crisis suits lite. More jump, shoot, jump away, frustrating your opponents to no end as you unload pistol shots (both bolt pistol and plasma. A standard asm squad can take 3 plasma pistols for relatively cheap on the base squad). Interestingly enough, if you know of the gunslinger rule in the BRB where models with two pistols can fire both of them, vanguard vets with two plasma/grav pistols, albeit cripplingly expensive, can do devastating damage. And it is quite hilarious to watch. Having multiple asm and vanguard vet squads jumping around while causing merry havoc with an obscene number of short range plasma and grav pistol shots on csm was intensely frustrating to my opponent, oddly fluffy in how the RG actually work in universe. We tied, but it was a great time :)
I do get your point on how it isn't as good as others (cough cough, white scars -.-), but still, it gives the army a whole new way of playing that you can capitalize on. When are you ever gonna use vanilla asm anyways?
Read the chapter tactic description again, it does not apply to vehicles (only when stated that it does, like IH). It only applies to models with the chapter tactic rule.
And what is that assault jump (jump, shoot, jump away) ? Some kind of house rule ?
That they can use the jump pack in both phases doesn't mean that you can jump 12" in the assault. It means that, as jump infantry, you get fleet in the assault phase, even when you used your jump packs in the movement phase.
Racism against Blood Angels, Space Wolves & Dark Angels... They're chapters too, you know...
ReplyDeleteTrue, maybe the wording should have been "from codex Space Marine". Next time!
DeleteI suspect it really depends on what units your using. imperial fists for example really are awesome if your personal preferance tatically leans towards heavy use of non-assault marines utilizing devestators for your anti-vehicle.
ReplyDeleteIron Hands are simply the best choice if you're a mech heavy army.
Ultramarines IMHO are gonna be one of the hardest to master. pretty much requirely you to have a highly flexable force with a mix of units. but I could see a true master of it being impressive
It's white scars for me. They are brilliant.
DeleteI wonder why Raven Guard got so many votes, their chapter tactic is the worst and useless by far. Only veterans and tacticals squad with their rhinos benefit from it. And only in deployment and perhaps first round of combat. All the other chapters got tactics that can be used throughout the whole game, that really have an impact on your playstyle or shooting.
ReplyDeleteScout and stealth from the chapter tactics benefits "models in the detachment", meaning it applies to basically everything that isn't bulky or very bulky, as per the exceptions, so it has broader applications than just sternguard and tacs in rhinos. Also, using your jump pack in movement and assault allows for all sorts of great movement and placement shenanigans, especially with the much improved (IMHO, namely because of the points decrease) vanguard vets. If you don't think it's good, you're just not being creative enough.
DeleteI've never said that it's not good, I've just said that the other tactics are better :) And using the jump pack in move and assault is .. nice. But not great, since sm jump pack units are not very good. You got perhaps one squad, which benefits from it. While the other chapters got tactics which are used by more units.
DeleteWell, who else does benefit from the scout and stealth then ? Tacs, vets and devs. Scout is ok, but the Raven Guard chapter as a whole is not very good when compared to the others imo.
Well, vehicles also benefit since it vehicles are also models i nthe detachment, and they don't suffer from the restriction of being bulky or very bulky according to the rules, so you get your rhinos, razorbacks, landspeeders ... predators, land raiders. It gives great potential for pre game redeployment.
DeleteAlso, the assault jump is a unique way of using asm. Think of them more like crisis suits lite. More jump, shoot, jump away, frustrating your opponents to no end as you unload pistol shots (both bolt pistol and plasma. A standard asm squad can take 3 plasma pistols for relatively cheap on the base squad). Interestingly enough, if you know of the gunslinger rule in the BRB where models with two pistols can fire both of them, vanguard vets with two plasma/grav pistols, albeit cripplingly expensive, can do devastating damage. And it is quite hilarious to watch. Having multiple asm and vanguard vet squads jumping around while causing merry havoc with an obscene number of short range plasma and grav pistol shots on csm was intensely frustrating to my opponent, oddly fluffy in how the RG actually work in universe. We tied, but it was a great time :)
I do get your point on how it isn't as good as others (cough cough, white scars -.-), but still, it gives the army a whole new way of playing that you can capitalize on. When are you ever gonna use vanilla asm anyways?
Read the chapter tactic description again, it does not apply to vehicles (only when stated that it does, like IH). It only applies to models with the chapter tactic rule.
DeleteAnd what is that assault jump (jump, shoot, jump away) ? Some kind of house rule ?
That they can use the jump pack in both phases doesn't mean that you can jump 12" in the assault. It means that, as jump infantry, you get fleet in the assault phase, even when you used your jump packs in the movement phase.
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