Thursday 16 January 2014

Tyranids. Why the tears?

Lots of people will crucify me for what I'm saying. They will call me noob, nerd, loser...all because truth hurts. 
Let's start from the beginning. Tyranids are a challenging army to play. They can't ally with anyone, they can't take fortifications (not 100% sure about that, correct me if I'm wrong) and now they can only select psychic powers from their own table.

Most of the units had been nerfed. Lots of independent characters have disappeared. The brutal killing machines are not as brutal anymore. Their flyers insta die if the fell from the sky (at least the new ones with T5). Ymglar (or whatever is the spelling) Genestealers have disappeared too. No more pods....Jeez, it sounds like a long list of disadvantages. 

I guess it's justified all the crying around the blogs, forums, etc... that Nids are shit, that GW fucked all the Nids players, that they're not competitive anymore...Right?

Wrong. Cry babies that only care about competitive gaming and winning games no matter how are the ones talking shit. I've seen lots of people that actually love the new Codex (including me). It's not a Tau or Eldar Codex where no matter what you get it's good. No matter how you mix your army, it's still quite powerful. 

Nids are not like that. They are, as I said before, a challenging army. You need to keep your Synapse connection at all times or you can get yourself in trouble. It's a SWARM ARMY, and in this codex, most of the units got reduced in points (I guess that's really good?). Some of the best and coolest models are in this army, and the new ones look pretty amazing. The look of the table with all your MC's line up is priceless. Winning a game has become a challenge, something that could be really hard, but, as always, that depends of your strategy, decisions and luck with dice. 

If you just want to win games, run Taudar armies. 

If you wanna have fun, play anything you want.

This hobby is not just about winning or losing, it's about enjoying. The moment that doesn't happen it loses its "magic". I always said if I have to tell someone "mate, it's just a game" I won't play that person anymore. 

I think Tyranids are a crazy fun army to play, like Chaos Daemons or Orks. They might not be the most OP and you will have to work your victory (imagine you're playing a video game in hardcore mode) but each victory that you get will be more rewarding than any other that you have with your Farsight Bomb, just smashing your opponent. Where is the fun in that?

I don't know everybody else, but I'm trying to paint all my Nids to get them in the field as fast as possible. I can't wait to start trying all the different possibilities. Especially, the Lictor/Mawlok combo , I want to see how good it works. Or those Venomthropes giving shrouded to your units...

So, my conclusion is that people crying over everything are the people that just want easy wins. They don't really care about the hobby, just about the competitive part of it. As I read a long time ago:

"Don't pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one"- Bruce Lee


  1. well said, i regret selling my nids now! I sold them before xmas to pay for a titan and a wraithknight

  2. I understand why people would be upset about having 5 characters dropped from the Codex.... If they did that to my Guard I'd be mortified. However that's not to say we won't see them making a comeback in the inevitable Hive Fleet: (insert-name-here) codex supplements we're sure to see.

    I don't think Nids have gotten that bad a deal at all, the stock monsters are still formidable, and to be honest many people won't know what to do with 2 flying hive tyrants and 3 more flying MCs on the board at once. S8 vector strike? Yes please!

    There's still plenty that can be done with this codex to make it a very competitive one. As you mentioned the Lictor/Mawlok combo is going to become the bane of many a gamer with no scatter and multiple AP2 templates.

    The main principles of the army remain the same, swarm infantry and big badass critters giving support. I'm sure we'll see a resurgence of these armies once the furor dies down.

    After all, people cried about Tau too...

    1. I think you will cry with Guard. (me too)
      They will drop a lot of stuff.

      If IG get a normal wave, it will be only 4 new kits and 2~3 characters.
      IG already needs Ordnance, Hydra, Veteran/Stormtrooper (so 3 on 4)
      There will be a new kit for a big thing (mini-titan or big tank)
      As Ogryn, Ratling, Penal Legion, Psyker Squad and lot of Characters does not exist or only in metal, GW won't make that much new plastic models, so they will be get the Malantai-treat.

    2. You're right of course, there's potential for lots to go missing. And this Codex only let's us know that GW is happy enough to drop a whole heap of models.

      However I'm not ready to give up the hope of keeping the same diversity just yet.

  3. Agreed. I just played my first game of 40k in months and had a blast laughing at all of the "40k moments" that manifested in the game. I think people take this game way too seriously sometimes for all of the money and time they sink into it.

    I love the look of most of the nids models, but I didn't like the look of many of the new models. I had been considering starting them until the release. Oh well, that just means more money for when the Imperial Guard and Orks launch!

  4. I object not to the codex, nor the 'nerfing' of some of the powers and abilities. New ones will be found, and the hive will move on. I object to the codex being less than half the purchase before supplements will be released.

  5. I can't speak for others here but for me you've got it reversed;

    I don't care that Nids aren't super powerful.

    I really do care that the new Codex is significantly less fun to play. I picked up Nids because of all the different deployment options, the variety of ways to play the army. They took the vast majority of that away. I loved hunkering down with the minimum amount I could have on the board first turn and the insane fear on my opponents face when EVERYTHING came on turn 2. Pods dropping from the skies, Trygon's deepstriking, Mawlocs coming up from below, Deathleaper materializing out of thin air, Ymgarls charging from cover. My standard 2,000 point list had one of literally every deployment type possible in the codex

    - Deathleaper.
    - Mawloc (Terror from the Deep DS).
    - Trygon (protected DS into the middle of the army!).
    - Gargoyles (at least 1 would always faceplant into the ground).
    - Pods, Pods, Pods!
    - Tervigon with outflank from Hive Commander.
    - Ymgarls ending their hibernation.

    It was FUN.

    You know what's not fun? Marching up the board. Which is pretty much my only option. I can march swarms, or I can march Nidzilla. Or Flying Circus if I feel like shelling out the money.

    No thanks.

    1. I do have to agree, mostly. The exclusion of Mycetic Spores really sucks, but there's still the potential for plenty of in-your-face action.

      The fact that Lictors don't scatter when Deep Striking, and their 6" Pheromone Trail means that a group of Mawlocs has become truly terrifying. No scatter with that appalling template you now get to do TWICE? That's scary.

      Trygons remain a good avenue of backfield nastiness, with the potential to have units emerging from their tunnels. A Trygon Prime now even gives you some solid firepower once it pops up behind enemy lines.

      As for infantry, shrykes, gargoyles and flying rippers are still jump infantry aren't they? Doesn't that give them DS as a matter of course?

      I do know what you mean however, and I agree that Nids are going to have to be played differently, but don't discount the ambush potential that remains in the Codex.

    2. Yah, jump infantry can DS. But I'm not buying FW Shrike conversion kits, Rippers are terribad and if I load up on Gargoyles I can't take Crones or Harpies.

      That is the main problem with this book. It's just not a lot of fun to play. We play pretty much entirely 1750 point games in my area, so no double FOC. So if I want to play my preferred style (ambush tactics) I HAVE to go out and buy a bunch of models only to lose... a lot? Yah, that's not very fun.

      Luckily my gaming group will let me write my own fandex, so that's me covered but...

    3. Agreed. The book just sucked the fun out of the army.

      writing a fandex! Need any help? I'd really be up for trying to write a better codex

    4. @Rob

      Sent you an email using the mail that came up when I clicked your name here. Thought I'd mention it in case it got sent to your spam filter since you don't know me :P

    5. "The fact that Lictors don't scatter when Deep Striking, and their 6" Pheromone Trail means that a group of Mawlocs has become truly terrifying. No scatter with that appalling template you now get to do TWICE? That's scary."

      explain to me how that lictor has managed to stay within 6 of an enemy unit you want to hit with the mawloc for the enemies entire turn

  6. As a former nid player I agree with the thoughts mentioned in the comments above. Less options make things worse when it comes to game play. It used to feel like my nids were coming from everywhere and that was fun for me and my opponent. Also how much fun are people who have sweet converted Dooms, Yrgmals, parasites and Spore pods having? If a well funded Australian gentleman hadn't offered me a ton of cash for my painted nids I would still own them and I wouldn't be having any fun just based on those aspects alone, not to mention I am also s competitive player, who you took care to villify in your post, but I'm fine with that ... just not what's been done to an army I really loved.

    1. My intention wasn't to vilify anyone TJ, and if you felt that way I would like to apologize for that. Spiceralc, Crazy242 and TommyH are some of the most competitive players that I know, always preparing meta op list, and I don't think I'm better than them in any way just because I don't like that. I'm even going to be a guinea pig against TommyH's cents/broadsides bomb...
      My vilify was against all the people that no matter what they get, they always whine. Those that said that broadsides were shit cause they didn't have high S anymore. Those that said WS were shit cause they increased their points. Those that said WK were shit cause they were too expensive and didn't have a 2+ save. I have nothing against competitive people. I have it against whiners.

  7. just going to point out a failed grounding test on a FMC is a strength 9 hit so it wont insta kill the harpy or crone the fall will do a single wound

    1. I was told that it was a S10 hit. My bad if it's not.

    2. Thats alright lol an easy mistake to make I thought for ages a crashing flyer was strength 10 ap 2 now I know its not so more models survive haha

  8. I have to agree with Anonymous and TJ, I ended up with the Tyranids when my son wanted them and they were the only painted army I could play with. I didn't win very often but I had fun. 6th Edition and Biomancy changed all of that, making them more durable, suddenly my Tervigon skulking at the back was the spearhead of my force, with Crushing Claws taking a potential 9 Smash attacks to my opponent. But I didn't always win, even with the Doom although I probably won more than I lost.

    The one major issue I have is that the people crying are not all the win at all cost folk they are also the hobby folk because if you ran drop pods you had to make the pods, I've three scratchbuilt or remodelled from Plasma Hatchers, luckily the way I modelled them I can use these as Vengeance Weapons Batteries because we can take Fortifications.

    The very limitations of our previous Codex, no allies, limited anti-air, overwatch forced us to find a way to be competitive, I think we've every right to be a bit let down that they came along and took that away.

    I can appreciate some things were overpowered - Tervigons with three rolls on Biomancy to practically guarantee a decent power, well that's fixed by what they did do Mastery lvl 1. That way they'd only get the 1 roll if they'd allowed us to keep BRB powers. Afterall they've been magnanimous about our Warlord Trait, we can still take the ones from the book, seems a bit harsh to take both our multiple powers on a Tervigon AND access to a decent set.

    It's a hatchet job in more ways than one on pretty much everything, I think Hive Tyrants and Biovores/Spore Mines are the only things that came away with straight up improvements in every aspect and yet they were rapidly becoming standbys anyway, thanks to the DevFlyrants and Barrage Sniping of the Biovores. It lacks consistency and sense, which I think is why we feel let down.

    1. I agree that people with conversions and drop pods would be upset about it. I was also upset when I found out I couldn't use Lysander in my Ultramarines army anymore, or any other character, unless I'm allying. I know it's not the same but I get where are you going.

    2. straight up improvements in the book: (some of these are contested, but if you compare, they've improved at least in points)

      old one eye
      tyrant guard
      spore mines

    3. Less points is not an improvement if the model in question was nerfed to the point where it still costs too much.

    4. none of those models above are nerfed to the point where it still costs too much.... all those models function the same as last codex for less points, or better.

  9. I'm afraid you are missing a very delicate point. Last codex included a lot of units, more than usual, that did not have a model. If you wanted to use a Tervidon, you had to build one yourself! Same goes with pods, Doom, Parasite, Ymgarls (to some extent) and others. Now these units are gone. Love and care spent putting these things together are spoiled by the release of a book. With one blow, GW has stepped on the lovechilds of the majority of the community and players. And to to boot, they're waving New Extra Cool Bugs with Extra Cheese (that are actually a rules wise disappointment) around, believing these will make good the mauling of the old units.

    We got the Venue bat. They sacrificed our team for shareholder money and there is no way we can forgive that. GW wants customers and have to deal with fans. That's the core of this issue.

    1. nope, they sacrificed anything they couldn't afford to make. All because of a court case that most people online were crowing about them loosing (Chapterhouse). Once you have the rights to your IP taken away then you have to think real hard about whether you are going to give rules for units that MIGHT get made one day (with the hopes of creativity being the end result) and seeing others waltz off with the profit of your conceptual work.

      People are bashing on them for protecting their work against IP thieves who now have the backing of US law. 'Fraid I'd have done the same.

  10. The rules in the new codex aren't too harsh, with the exception of a few things (like the Tyranid Warrior rules). However, the codex did seem kind of lazy. There were so many ways for them to expand and add to the rules, but a lot of it just got chopped off.

    I sincerely hope they expand on these rules in the near future, because this codex could have so much more flavour than it currently does.

  11. I have to disagree with you on one point. Being a competitive player I did not want Tyranids to be the new Tau or Eldar, but quite the opposite. I would have settled for the next Space Marines. That book is amazingly balanced for the edition, has several options of what to do and list building options and an over feel of a 6th Edition book, and the ability to challenge those top dogs in the hand of a good player. This new Tyranid codex feels an awful like the previous one with the exception of removing or nerfing any advantage they had before and not replacing that with something new. And even as a casual player, I would want to feel that my new army to at least have changed for the better with a new book, and I do not think that it has.

  12. Glad to see that someone appreciates that this hobby isn't all about "curb-checking your opponent into the ground with the latest overpowered 'net list", but is more about having fun with your friends. I DO think the loss of pods took a bit of fun away from the Tyranids, but that shouldn't entirely stop people from having a fun time playing, should it?

  13. I won two out of 3 2000pts battles Wednesday with new nids an i used a pure CC list bar the tyranofex and zoans everthing else was CC

  14. 3 games in with no losses thus far... two battles vs. grey knights, including draigo + paladins against two separate players (lots of grey knights that day) plus one vs. guard/space marines. This dex is far from bad... and I played three different lists each game, allowing my opponents from the first two games to pick the lists (third player got the last list left). I seriously do not understand the internet whining. I get more stuff on the table and it's by and large more effective than before... granted I'm not playing pyrovores or rippers but I wasn't doing that last dex either.

  15. Synapse isn't too bad, just avoid all stuff that depend on synapse to perform. Hmm, that's a Nidzilla build then.
    This is the codex of less options. This is codex: Cruddace v1.5. This is the codex that could have been.

  16. Many parts of this article I can this one;
    "Lots of people will crucify me for what I'm saying. They will call me noob, nerd, loser...all because truth hurts. "

    But this...
    " ....that they're not competitive anymore...Right?"

    NOPE. - I totally disagree.

    I have not seen a single tyranid post or person I have spoken to who have the complaint "thy won't be winning games".

    In fact, myself and many of the intelligent players have said the sky is not falling, and the nids can (and will) win games.

    The problem is, we just don't want to play them.

    For all the reasons you list, and more, but the problem is that besides all the nerfs (the scything talons one hurts the worst in my limited experience this weekend) the main reason this is a bad book.

    I could care less about biomancy (I could care some about telepathy) and the reason I feel the book is poor, is because its not inspiring like the last few books.

    Yes, this is subjective, but quantifying the nid-rage is not easy.

    Here is a great example -
    I was trying to explain this to a buddy of mine (after I beat him in a game this weekend) of why I didn't like the book.
    In the middle of the conversation, he was asking me model advice for his new Inquisition units he was "spicing up" his old guard with - and he made the comment "all the new options are really exciting, and I can't wait to try them out!!! There so many cool combos of ways I can do things...."

    And that my friends, is why the new nid book is bad.

    Now, for some context, I have read (and played) many of the recent books....and as far as options go, they set the bar high.
    (chapter tactics alone has set many of the local marine players in my area on fire with the ides of cool lists).
    so, if someone else has NOT, then this may not make as much sense...

    Reading the biomorphs and special rules does not make you say "wow, this gives me a lot of great ideas".
    Reading the artifacts does not make you think "woah, I could build my own swarmlord/chapter master/cool-hq with these"
    Reading the psychic powers does not make you say "this is cool, I can combine this power here, with another ability and make my army sing!"
    reading the new synapse does not make you say "wow, my troops are better than ever, I don't have to worry about the fact the basic combat resolution system is broken anymore...."
    You don't hear "man, I am so glad we have more skyfire options now, and I can FINALLY start running my tyrants on the ground, instead of making flyrants with BL my "must include"".
    You don't hear "wow, I can finally use my warriors, those ffluffy great guys I have spent time painting and love the models"

    You don't hear those things and many more.

    But the executive summary is, I have not heard or read a single person who said the book can't win games (it can) - but as the author correctly points out - its about having fun.
    This book is not "fun".

    1. I agree with most of the things you said. But when it comes to opinions, everyone is different and have different thoughts, which is normal.
      I'm not an experienced Tyranid player. I play Space Marines, Tau and Grey Knights. Also played Dark Eldar and Chaos Daemons before I trade them for Grey Knights. What I loved the most about Daemons, was their randomness and fielding so many troops just running towards the enemy, like a swarm army.
      3 Colours, is the one that I almost always play against, he has Eldar and Orks, and I always loved playing against his orks because of the same reason.
      This new codex gave the players the possibility of doing a massive Swarm army, reducing points overall (more or less) and giving you the freedom to create more combos with that points difference. I started myself a long time ago a Nid army, not because of the codex but because of the models. With the released of this codex I got an injection of the Hive Mind, and I started my playable Nids army. I even trade on facebook my Grey Knights army for Nids, and I can't wait to play them.
      In my opinion, easy games are not fun. Challenging games are the ones that you enjoy the most. Those games that you don't know who is gonna win until last turn are the best. One sided games where your units just die because of bad strategies, terrible rolling, etc... are not fun, even if you´re the one tabling your opponent. And I know what I'm talking! 3 Colours has tabled me 4 times!


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